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	<title>Comments on: The Business of Cruelty</title>
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		<title>By: Steph Gordon</title>
		<link>http://werewolf.co.nz/2009/08/the-business-of-cruelty/comment-page-1/#comment-385</link>
		<dc:creator>Steph Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 09:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://werewolf.co.nz/?p=553#comment-385</guid>
		<description>Thank you Ms McClennan for a comprehensive and informative article.

This issue is clearly not going to go away so long as NAWAC are allowed to sit on their hands and use ever more delaying tactics. PROFIT RULES and NAWAC have made this plain. As for Minister Carter - only time will tell whether he is sincere or simply saying one thing to appease the public while he says quite different things to the industry. As for elderly Peter O&#039;Hara, the Chairman of NAWAC - he came across on TV as reflecting 19C and early 20C attitudes towards animals. We were truly shocked at his inability to comprehend animal distress. He simply refused to acknowledge it. 

While it was useful that TV1 and TV3 pursued this issue for a couple of nights
it was noteworthy that TV1 in particular rounded off their final presentation with a person who very plausibly whitewashed the whole issue, in effect saying to the public &#039;There&#039;s really nothing to worry about here&#039;, keep buying pork and there&#039;s no need to concern yourselves&#039;. After that there was a step-up in pork advertising and it was also pushed through foodie presenters and others in the media, none of whom showed anything but pleasure in buying and promoting NZ pork. Such messages have a placating and soothing effect on the public, and the industry well-knows that it&#039;s only a matter of time and an increased promotion of pork thru the media, and the public will have forgotten the whole sorry business. 

I&#039;d like to say to commenter Rosalind Dalefield that there is little value in comparing NZ to the lowest common denominator - the US. We have no cause to feel smug. We should be looking to our own backyard, working to improve our own standards and do it fast. There is far too much animal cruelty in NZ, even one case of it is too much and from what I know and have seen the media reports only the tip of the iceberg. NZ is a surprisingly violent society and our children, our animals and all who are perceived as weaker and more vulnerable need strong legal protection against such abuses. 

I endorse commenter Sue&#039;s statement &quot;I believe the best way to help pigs is simply to not eat them&quot;. This is one very important way. I&#039;d urge folk to try this and also to follow the suggestions in &#039;What you can do&#039; in this article.

If each person makes a small effort, change will happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Ms McClennan for a comprehensive and informative article.</p>
<p>This issue is clearly not going to go away so long as NAWAC are allowed to sit on their hands and use ever more delaying tactics. PROFIT RULES and NAWAC have made this plain. As for Minister Carter &#8211; only time will tell whether he is sincere or simply saying one thing to appease the public while he says quite different things to the industry. As for elderly Peter O&#8217;Hara, the Chairman of NAWAC &#8211; he came across on TV as reflecting 19C and early 20C attitudes towards animals. We were truly shocked at his inability to comprehend animal distress. He simply refused to acknowledge it. </p>
<p>While it was useful that TV1 and TV3 pursued this issue for a couple of nights<br />
it was noteworthy that TV1 in particular rounded off their final presentation with a person who very plausibly whitewashed the whole issue, in effect saying to the public &#8216;There&#8217;s really nothing to worry about here&#8217;, keep buying pork and there&#8217;s no need to concern yourselves&#8217;. After that there was a step-up in pork advertising and it was also pushed through foodie presenters and others in the media, none of whom showed anything but pleasure in buying and promoting NZ pork. Such messages have a placating and soothing effect on the public, and the industry well-knows that it&#8217;s only a matter of time and an increased promotion of pork thru the media, and the public will have forgotten the whole sorry business. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to say to commenter Rosalind Dalefield that there is little value in comparing NZ to the lowest common denominator &#8211; the US. We have no cause to feel smug. We should be looking to our own backyard, working to improve our own standards and do it fast. There is far too much animal cruelty in NZ, even one case of it is too much and from what I know and have seen the media reports only the tip of the iceberg. NZ is a surprisingly violent society and our children, our animals and all who are perceived as weaker and more vulnerable need strong legal protection against such abuses. </p>
<p>I endorse commenter Sue&#8217;s statement &#8220;I believe the best way to help pigs is simply to not eat them&#8221;. This is one very important way. I&#8217;d urge folk to try this and also to follow the suggestions in &#8216;What you can do&#8217; in this article.</p>
<p>If each person makes a small effort, change will happen.</p>
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		<title>By: unsustainable business practice</title>
		<link>http://werewolf.co.nz/2009/08/the-business-of-cruelty/comment-page-1/#comment-346</link>
		<dc:creator>unsustainable business practice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:19:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://werewolf.co.nz/?p=553#comment-346</guid>
		<description>The people that do eat pigs should ensure that they are not funding animal cruelty. 
Legislation and regulation in our system of bureaucracy gone mad is sometimes all there is that can bring these totally unethical companies into line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The people that do eat pigs should ensure that they are not funding animal cruelty.<br />
Legislation and regulation in our system of bureaucracy gone mad is sometimes all there is that can bring these totally unethical companies into line.</p>
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		<title>By: sue</title>
		<link>http://werewolf.co.nz/2009/08/the-business-of-cruelty/comment-page-1/#comment-338</link>
		<dc:creator>sue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://werewolf.co.nz/?p=553#comment-338</guid>
		<description>I believe the best way to help pigs is simply to not eat them . They are intelligent ,social animals that have been said to have the mental capacity of a 3 year old . You wouldnt eat a dog so why eat pigs ,they are playful and friendly like a dog. Just because they taste nice is no excuse to ignore their suffering and there are vegetarian  mock bacon products on the market. Heres a link to see footage of pig farming in NZ.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwBNpHpc-ck&amp;feature=channel_page</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the best way to help pigs is simply to not eat them . They are intelligent ,social animals that have been said to have the mental capacity of a 3 year old . You wouldnt eat a dog so why eat pigs ,they are playful and friendly like a dog. Just because they taste nice is no excuse to ignore their suffering and there are vegetarian  mock bacon products on the market. Heres a link to see footage of pig farming in NZ.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwBNpHpc-ck&#038;feature=channel_page" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwBNpHpc-ck&#038;feature=channel_page</a></p>
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		<title>By: does my  carbon chauvinist look big in this?</title>
		<link>http://werewolf.co.nz/2009/08/the-business-of-cruelty/comment-page-1/#comment-333</link>
		<dc:creator>does my  carbon chauvinist look big in this?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 07:45:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://werewolf.co.nz/?p=553#comment-333</guid>
		<description>As humans we have a brain that unconsciously  is constantly forming/finding our location- And  this includes our social location I.E where we sit in our social  hierarchy.
David 
Please  do not think we do not mimic.
Humans mimic much much  more than you think. 

And it is now claimed that  the variance between genetic code( most of which is not understood and so in our humanist arrogance just called &#039;Junk&#039;)of humans and chimps is the same difference as human  to human. 
Humans are like animals,  humans have used their different adapted brains to devise  Power  Play = the torture,  abuse, cruelty ,  and exploitation  of those viewed as weaker &quot;lower beings&quot;.
Why you believe humans are so much better than animals?We excel at  denial and delusions.
The wheel? 
Arms trading and constant wars?
Being unsustainable?
Funding the development and production of  weapons instead of trying to end our  reliance on fossil fuels.


Please spare me the delusions.  Unless we start using our frequency amplifiers for the greater good,  not for profits(power)- we will just continue to see the increasing wide spread abuse of humans (and animals) alike.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As humans we have a brain that unconsciously  is constantly forming/finding our location- And  this includes our social location I.E where we sit in our social  hierarchy.<br />
David<br />
Please  do not think we do not mimic.<br />
Humans mimic much much  more than you think. </p>
<p>And it is now claimed that  the variance between genetic code( most of which is not understood and so in our humanist arrogance just called &#8216;Junk&#8217;)of humans and chimps is the same difference as human  to human.<br />
Humans are like animals,  humans have used their different adapted brains to devise  Power  Play = the torture,  abuse, cruelty ,  and exploitation  of those viewed as weaker &#8220;lower beings&#8221;.<br />
Why you believe humans are so much better than animals?We excel at  denial and delusions.<br />
The wheel?<br />
Arms trading and constant wars?<br />
Being unsustainable?<br />
Funding the development and production of  weapons instead of trying to end our  reliance on fossil fuels.</p>
<p>Please spare me the delusions.  Unless we start using our frequency amplifiers for the greater good,  not for profits(power)- we will just continue to see the increasing wide spread abuse of humans (and animals) alike.</p>
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		<title>By: David Munro</title>
		<link>http://werewolf.co.nz/2009/08/the-business-of-cruelty/comment-page-1/#comment-315</link>
		<dc:creator>David Munro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 00:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://werewolf.co.nz/?p=553#comment-315</guid>
		<description>Willful and avoidable cruelty to animals is unconscionable and should be eliminated as much as is practicable.  However, pigs are not more intelligent than babies.  Aristotle was at least partly right.  Human Beings are unique.  No other creature known can learn, feedback, and wire its ever-developing brain like human beings can.  I think there is something silly and distasteful about the modern craze for trying to anthropomorphise animals and blur the distinction between humans and animals.  There is much current research into how closely animals, particularly chimpanzees, can mimic human intelligence, but that is all that it reveals; mimicry.  Helen Guldberg comments on this in her recent review on Spiked of ‘Not a Chimp: The Hunt to Find the Genes That Make Us Human’  by Jeremy Taylor.  http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/printable/7187/ Here is a quote from her review:

‘Although the bulk of Not a Chimp focuses on the case for our genetic uniqueness, Taylor does recognise that biology alone cannot explain our exceptional abilities. Like a number of groundbreaking developmental and comparative psychologists, he recognises the powerful role of social learning – such as true imitation – in human development. The difference between emulation (which other animals are clearly capable of) and true imitation ‘is crucial to an understanding of how we, as a species, have amassed such a variety and complexity of material culture’. He writes:

‘Understanding that a demonstrator intends his actions to make something, allied to detailed copying of every move he makes, allied to the reciprocal understanding in the demonstrator’s mind that he knows something you don’t and therefore has to teach you it, produces a potent ratchet effect.’

Unlike any other animal ‘we build on very modest foundations and blow them up to extraordinary dimensions of power and complexity’, which has ‘led from the invention of the wheel, less than six thousand years ago, to the wheeling out of the latest passenger jet’.’

I don’t think that pretending that animals are more than they are will ultimately improve their treatment.  Cruelty to animals should be tackled as being simply repugnant, full stop.  But also it should be tackled on the basis of the oft demonstrated association between cruelty to animals and cruelty to vulnerable people; women children and the disabled.  Cruelty is the realm of cowardly dysfunctional people, serves no purpose, and society should allow it no quarter.  But having said that, I think I can already feel the heat of animal rights responses that ‘animals should be protected in their own right, not just because of the implications for the treatment of other people.’  I’m afraid I make no apology for that; it is the legitimate trait of the humanist.  He tangata, he tangata, he tangata.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Willful and avoidable cruelty to animals is unconscionable and should be eliminated as much as is practicable.  However, pigs are not more intelligent than babies.  Aristotle was at least partly right.  Human Beings are unique.  No other creature known can learn, feedback, and wire its ever-developing brain like human beings can.  I think there is something silly and distasteful about the modern craze for trying to anthropomorphise animals and blur the distinction between humans and animals.  There is much current research into how closely animals, particularly chimpanzees, can mimic human intelligence, but that is all that it reveals; mimicry.  Helen Guldberg comments on this in her recent review on Spiked of ‘Not a Chimp: The Hunt to Find the Genes That Make Us Human’  by Jeremy Taylor.  <a href="http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/printable/7187/" rel="nofollow">http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/printable/7187/</a> Here is a quote from her review:</p>
<p>‘Although the bulk of Not a Chimp focuses on the case for our genetic uniqueness, Taylor does recognise that biology alone cannot explain our exceptional abilities. Like a number of groundbreaking developmental and comparative psychologists, he recognises the powerful role of social learning – such as true imitation – in human development. The difference between emulation (which other animals are clearly capable of) and true imitation ‘is crucial to an understanding of how we, as a species, have amassed such a variety and complexity of material culture’. He writes:</p>
<p>‘Understanding that a demonstrator intends his actions to make something, allied to detailed copying of every move he makes, allied to the reciprocal understanding in the demonstrator’s mind that he knows something you don’t and therefore has to teach you it, produces a potent ratchet effect.’</p>
<p>Unlike any other animal ‘we build on very modest foundations and blow them up to extraordinary dimensions of power and complexity’, which has ‘led from the invention of the wheel, less than six thousand years ago, to the wheeling out of the latest passenger jet’.’</p>
<p>I don’t think that pretending that animals are more than they are will ultimately improve their treatment.  Cruelty to animals should be tackled as being simply repugnant, full stop.  But also it should be tackled on the basis of the oft demonstrated association between cruelty to animals and cruelty to vulnerable people; women children and the disabled.  Cruelty is the realm of cowardly dysfunctional people, serves no purpose, and society should allow it no quarter.  But having said that, I think I can already feel the heat of animal rights responses that ‘animals should be protected in their own right, not just because of the implications for the treatment of other people.’  I’m afraid I make no apology for that; it is the legitimate trait of the humanist.  He tangata, he tangata, he tangata.</p>
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		<title>By: Rosalind Dalefield</title>
		<link>http://werewolf.co.nz/2009/08/the-business-of-cruelty/comment-page-1/#comment-308</link>
		<dc:creator>Rosalind Dalefield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 12:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://werewolf.co.nz/?p=553#comment-308</guid>
		<description>I disagree with the sweeping assertion that &quot;New Zealand treats animals badly&quot;.  I am an expat Kiwi living in the US.  Here, it is quite okay to crop the ears of Doberman dogs and to crop puppies&#039; tails for purely cosmetic reasons.  &quot;Gaited&quot; horses such as Tennessee Walkers and Saddlebreds are routinely fitted with massive heavy shoes, and have irritants applied to the back of their fetlocks (&quot;soring&quot;) to get them to lift their forefeet artifically high in the show ring.  My farrier, who refuses to participate in such activities, tells me that in a very few years, these horses all break down with ringbone, a form of arthritis of the joints below the fetlock.  The same horses have ligaments in their tails severed to make them carry their tails high, and have irritants placed under the tail for the same purpose (&quot;gingering&quot;).  I can&#039;t imagine New Zealanders tolerating this sort of thing and in fact cropping the tails and ears of dogs for cosmetic reasons, and cutting the ligaments in horses&#039; tails to get a higher tail carriage, are all illegal in New Zealand.  
Dairy cows in many states in the US live indoors all the time and never get to graze on fresh grass.
While I agree that pigs are much happier &#039;free-range&#039; than crated, I think that in many ways, New Zealanders are very enlightened in their treatment of animals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree with the sweeping assertion that &#8220;New Zealand treats animals badly&#8221;.  I am an expat Kiwi living in the US.  Here, it is quite okay to crop the ears of Doberman dogs and to crop puppies&#8217; tails for purely cosmetic reasons.  &#8220;Gaited&#8221; horses such as Tennessee Walkers and Saddlebreds are routinely fitted with massive heavy shoes, and have irritants applied to the back of their fetlocks (&#8220;soring&#8221;) to get them to lift their forefeet artifically high in the show ring.  My farrier, who refuses to participate in such activities, tells me that in a very few years, these horses all break down with ringbone, a form of arthritis of the joints below the fetlock.  The same horses have ligaments in their tails severed to make them carry their tails high, and have irritants placed under the tail for the same purpose (&#8220;gingering&#8221;).  I can&#8217;t imagine New Zealanders tolerating this sort of thing and in fact cropping the tails and ears of dogs for cosmetic reasons, and cutting the ligaments in horses&#8217; tails to get a higher tail carriage, are all illegal in New Zealand.<br />
Dairy cows in many states in the US live indoors all the time and never get to graze on fresh grass.<br />
While I agree that pigs are much happier &#8216;free-range&#8217; than crated, I think that in many ways, New Zealanders are very enlightened in their treatment of animals.</p>
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		<title>By: People</title>
		<link>http://werewolf.co.nz/2009/08/the-business-of-cruelty/comment-page-1/#comment-305</link>
		<dc:creator>People</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 06:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://werewolf.co.nz/?p=553#comment-305</guid>
		<description>http://www.wearethemasses.com/videos/modest-mouse-king-rat
 = for a music (and animation) piece that matches this genre.

Profits or People.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.wearethemasses.com/videos/modest-mouse-king-rat" rel="nofollow">http://www.wearethemasses.com/videos/modest-mouse-king-rat</a><br />
 = for a music (and animation) piece that matches this genre.</p>
<p>Profits or People.</p>
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		<title>By: Helen R.Constable</title>
		<link>http://werewolf.co.nz/2009/08/the-business-of-cruelty/comment-page-1/#comment-286</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen R.Constable</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 06:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://werewolf.co.nz/?p=553#comment-286</guid>
		<description>here is absolutely no need to confine animals as we do. Many pigs in the South Island are run in free
range farms; the sows live in separate houses and care for their piglets in a natural manner. They are all healthier for the sunlight and exercise plus access to grass and crops. The same applies to hens allowed free range.

It is some perversion of human nature that delights in forcing subject species into ever more unnatural confinement, in an effort to screw the last ounce of profit out of them. It is high time we had a new NAWAC code of animal welfare. I am ashamed of my country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>here is absolutely no need to confine animals as we do. Many pigs in the South Island are run in free<br />
range farms; the sows live in separate houses and care for their piglets in a natural manner. They are all healthier for the sunlight and exercise plus access to grass and crops. The same applies to hens allowed free range.</p>
<p>It is some perversion of human nature that delights in forcing subject species into ever more unnatural confinement, in an effort to screw the last ounce of profit out of them. It is high time we had a new NAWAC code of animal welfare. I am ashamed of my country.</p>
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